Oral History - McEwen, Harvey


C. Barker (00:03):
June, class of 1913 OVC in Winnipeg on the 18th of January 1977. I have with me Dr. Jay Isa, OVC '38. We're going to have a conversation with Dr. McEwen, uh, who wrote to me last May telling me of some of the times when he was at the veterinary college in Toronto. Now we're, uh, just, uh, talking with Dr. McEwen, uh, about the, uh, OVC calendar of 19, uh, 11, 1912, in which his name is shown as a member of the, uh, uh, first year class. I wonder, uh, Dr. McEwen, if you could tell me, uh, where you had taken your, uh, schooling before you came to, uh, to ge- to, uh, Toronto? That's where the college was at that time.

Harvey McEwen (01:01):
Well, I took my schooling in a little red school house up the grade eight, out in the country North of Stonewall.

C. Barker (01:08):

Harvey McEwen (01:09):
And from there, I went to high school in Stonewall and I graduated from high school.

C. Barker (01:15):
So how many, how many years of high school would you have taken there at Stonewall, you remember?

Harvey McEwen (01:19):
To grade, to, to grade 11.

C. Barker (01:20):
To grade 11.

Harvey McEwen (01:21):
Grade 11 in those days.

C. Barker (01:22):

Harvey McEwen (01:23):
That's the, as far as it would go.

C. Barker (01:24):
I see.

Harvey McEwen (01:25):
And then from there, I went to normal school and took a course in normal school.

C. Barker (01:29):
And that would be in Winnipeg?

Harvey McEwen (01:30):
Yes, in Winnipeg.

C. Barker (01:31):
For two years or one year?

Harvey McEwen (01:32):
No, no, just the one year.

C. Barker (01:33):
Just the one year.

Harvey McEwen (01:34):
Then I taught school for a couple of years.

C. Barker (01:36):

Harvey McEwen (01:36):

C. Barker (01:37):
In, uh, Manitoba?

Harvey McEwen (01:39):
Back in the old school where I got my first education, (laughs) of all things, back in my home town and boarded at my, uh, dad and mother's place, you see?

C. Barker (01:47):

Harvey McEwen (01:48):
And, uh, after just a couple of years of that I di- I ... I had 31 children and eight classes to tend to and I never felt I was doing justice to any of them.

C. Barker (02:01):
I see.

Harvey McEwen (02:01):
And I was discouraged and I said, "I'm going to the veterinary college this fall," and I, which I did.

C. Barker (02:06):
What, what would make you become interested in, in the veterinary college?

Harvey McEwen (02:10):
Well, you see, I was born right on the farm. We had nothing but cattle and horses and pigs and all the rest of it. And I was interested in, in animals. And, uh, I thought it'd be a nice course. I thought that I could make a living at it, anyway. And I wasn't making much of a living teaching school. $50 a month was my wages and that wasn't very much money. And, uh, when I got into practice, I know I doubled that several times. (laughs)-

C. Barker (02:39):
So you, you then, uh, registered in the fall of ... What year would that be?

Harvey McEwen (02:46):

C. Barker (02:46):

Harvey McEwen (02:47):
10, 11, 11, 12, 12 ... Yes, 1910.

C. Barker (02:51):

Harvey McEwen (02:51):

C. Barker (02:52):
And you were only required to take three years of course at that time.

Harvey McEwen (02:55):
That's right, three years course.

C. Barker (02:56):

Harvey McEwen (02:57):
That's right.

C. Barker (02:58):
But there was a, there was an option there that you could take, either get a VS or a bachelor's degree.

Harvey McEwen (03:05):

C. Barker (03:05):

Harvey McEwen (03:06):
That's right.

C. Barker (03:07):
Now, you just took the- the VS part, well then, did you?

Harvey McEwen (03:11):
No, I took the whole thing.

C. Barker (03:13):
You took the whole thing.

Harvey McEwen (03:14):
I took the whole thing, yeah. And you had to get 70% of all your s- final subjects which I managed to get.

C. Barker (03:20):

Harvey McEwen (03:20):
So, I got by VBS.

C. Barker (03:22):
So, those who didn't get 70% got the VS.

Harvey McEwen (03:26):
They got the VS.

C. Barker (03:28):
And those who got more than 70%-

Harvey McEwen (03:30):
They got-

C. Barker (03:30):
... they were entitled to get the BVSC.

Harvey McEwen (03:31):
VBS. That's right.

C. Barker (03:33):
I see.

Harvey McEwen (03:33):
That's right.

C. Barker (03:34):
I, uh, I've been trying to get this sorted out and going through these old calendars. It's a bit confusing to, uh, decide how some people got just the VS and then some got the other one.

Harvey McEwen (03:46):
Yes, that's right.

C. Barker (03:47):
And there was a, an act, uh, put through by the, uh, province at that time awarding a VS degree, which is most unusual. So, some people got a VS degree from the province of Ontario and some got the BVSC from University of Toronto. Now, did you get a VS and a BVSC, Dr. McEwen or-

Harvey McEwen (04:11):
Yes, I got both of them.

C. Barker (04:13):
You got both of them.

Harvey McEwen (04:13):
I got them both.

C. Barker (04:14):
So, if you got the BVSC you were entitled to get the VS at the same time then?

Harvey McEwen (04:18):
Yeah, we got them both at the same time.

C. Barker (04:20):

Harvey McEwen (04:21):

C. Barker (04:21):
It's, it's a bit confusing, uh, at this, this period of time. It's, it's an unusual situation. Um, the college had just changed in 1908 from Andrew Smith into, uh, I think it was called Eddie Grange, wasn't it?

Harvey McEwen (04:38):
Oh, Eddie Grange. E.A.A. Grange.

C. Barker (04:40):
The principal?

Harvey McEwen (04:41):
Yes. (laughs).

C. Barker (04:41):
Yes. And, uh, the university offered the BVSC degree right after he came in. But the government of Ontario also said, uh, there's a VS degree here. So we have two kinds of people, those who got a VS-

Harvey McEwen (04:56):

C. Barker (04:57):
... and those who got the bachelor's from the-

Harvey McEwen (04:58):
That's right.

C. Barker (04:59):
... uni- university. It's a most unusual situation.

Harvey McEwen (05:02):

C. Barker (05:02):
And this, this clarifies it pretty nicely for me.

Jay Isa (05:05):
Well, even in 1938, he got the VS BVSC.

C. Barker (05:11):

Harvey McEwen (05:11):
That's right.

C. Barker (05:12):
But if you look at it at that time, the- the diploma is different from what would be given to Dr. McEwen at, at his period of time, because the VS in 1938, if you look it up, I think certifies that you have attended and graduated from the Ontario Veterinary College with all the rights and privileges of a veterinary surgeon. So, it doesn't say that you're given a degree. Uh, if, if you look at it, I think you'll find there's a, quite a difference because his will read degree.

Jay Isa (05:41):
Uh-huh (affirmative).

C. Barker (05:41):
And, uh, yours and mine, Jay, will read, uh, just the word graduates, I think.

Jay Isa (05:47):

C. Barker (05:47):
But many of our people use VS VBSC when they graduate.

Jay Isa (05:52):
There's some that-

Harvey McEwen (05:52):
Oh yeah.

Jay Isa (05:52):
... still-

C. Barker (05:53):
Some still do.

Jay Isa (05:54):
They insist on it, 'cause-

C. Barker (05:55):
Yes. Yeah.

Jay Isa (05:55):
... you see, they didn't convert-

C. Barker (05:57):
I know.

Jay Isa (05:57):
... when that was offered-

C. Barker (05:58):
That's right.

Jay Isa (05:58):
... to VBM.

C. Barker (05:59):
That's right.

Jay Isa (05:59):
They wouldn't.

C. Barker (06:00):
No. No.

Jay Isa (06:00):

C. Barker (06:03):
Well, that's very interesting. I'm glad to, uh ... You helped me out considerably-

Jay Isa (06:06):

C. Barker (06:07):
... because this is the way I have been sorting it out in the last, uh, few weeks.

Harvey McEwen (06:11):

C. Barker (06:12):
And, uh, that- that's clarified that pretty nicely.

Harvey McEwen (06:15):
I was a little, a little afraid, you know, some of the subjects, whether I'd get 70% or not. And I remember going to, uh, one of the old professors and, uh, I said, "Do you think I'll get 70% on my exam?" He said, "Oh, yes, you made more than 70%." (laughs). I felt pretty good about that.

C. Barker (06:31):
Was it-

Harvey McEwen (06:32):
By the way, uh, do you know anything about [inaudible]?

C. Barker (06:36):
Oh yes, oh yes.

Harvey McEwen (06:38):
Mine is sitting there.

C. Barker (06:38):
It's right there.

Harvey McEwen (06:39):
Right there, yes.

C. Barker (06:40):
Oh, great.

Harvey McEwen (06:41):
All the professors and al- ... Yeah, that's it.

C. Barker (06:43):
Well, was there a Professor Addison teaching you at that time?

Harvey McEwen (06:46):
He was a demonstrator.

C. Barker (06:47):

Harvey McEwen (06:48):
That's right.

C. Barker (06:49):
It's strange that this last year, I got a letter from his son who's living, uh, I think it's Thornhill, who wrote to the college wanting to know if anyone there would know anything about Professor Addison who was a teacher there at one time. So, I looked everything up I could and wrote a letter back to him and he replied to me and I asked him to send me a photograph of him. But I've never got it, but I really don't need it because we have photographs of that time. But Addison was a medical doctor, wasn't he?

Harvey McEwen (07:19):
He was, he was a medical doctor.

C. Barker (07:21):
And he taught histology, I think it was.

Harvey McEwen (07:22):
Yes, I rem- I just don't remember, but I remember he was one of the demonstrators.

C. Barker (07:27):

Harvey McEwen (07:27):

C. Barker (07:28):
I think he was there for quite a long time.

Harvey McEwen (07:30):
I think he was.

C. Barker (07:31):

Jay Isa (07:31):
Well, where was this? Was this Temperance Street or ...

Harvey McEwen (07:33):
On Temperance Street.

Jay Isa (07:33):
This is Temperance Street.

C. Barker (07:36):
Well, he, Dr. McEwen was in the transition group, uh, really. About 1913, uh, Grange got money from the province and from the federal government to start the new college on University.

Harvey McEwen (07:52):
On University Avenue.

C. Barker (07:53):
And, uh, you would be a graduate of, of the Temperance Street-

Harvey McEwen (07:57):
That's right.

C. Barker (07:58):
... whereas those who got into 1914, uh, were about the last graduates of Temperance. And the 1915 people, if I remember rightly, were, were University, uh, Avenue-

Harvey McEwen (08:09):
I see.

C. Barker (08:10):
... graduates. I think, uh ... See, Charlie Mitchel was 1914.

Harvey McEwen (08:16):
He was 1914.

C. Barker (08:16):
And I think '14 was the last, uh, Temperance Street graduation class.

Harvey McEwen (08:23):
I think that would be right. Yes.

C. Barker (08:26):
Well, while you were there, you must, or you perhaps will remember, uh, the, the, uh, uh, run in that Fowler had with Grange? Would you recall? Or this happened when you were graduating I guess. Fowler, uh, couldn't agree with Grange about salary I think it was.

Harvey McEwen (08:43):
Is that right?

C. Barker (08:44):
And Fowler separated from the college and there was quite a write up in the Star and the Globe and some of the other papers of that time, about this disagreement between Grange and Fowler. And the students, uh, took up the human cry because they wanted Fowler to stay as surgeon-

Jay Isa (09:04):

C. Barker (09:05):
But he left and-

Harvey McEwen (09:06):
I never knew that before.

C. Barker (09:08):
Yes. And I think the surgeon who followed him was Saunders. Do you remember-

Harvey McEwen (09:13):
Yes. I remember-

C. Barker (09:14):
Charles C.G. Saunders.

Harvey McEwen (09:16):
He lectured us the dog and cats.

C. Barker (09:18):
Yes, that's right.

Harvey McEwen (09:19):

C. Barker (09:19):
Yeah. Mitchell refers to him as dog and cats, uh, Saunders.

Harvey McEwen (09:23):
Yes, yes, yes.

C. Barker (09:25):
I, I never knew him, of course, he, uh-

Harvey McEwen (09:27):
Oh, I knew him.

C. Barker (09:28):
He left and went to England and, and uh, he didn't come back to Canada. He-

Harvey McEwen (09:33):

C. Barker (09:33):
... practiced over there.

Harvey McEwen (09:34):
Well, pardon me then, Dr.-

C. Barker (09:35):

Harvey McEwen (09:36):
... did, did Fowler leave the college all together?

C. Barker (09:38):
He left then until Charlie McGilvray came to be the principal and, uh, when the college moved to Guelph in 1921, uh, Fowler came back to the faculty.

Harvey McEwen (09:50):
Did he?

C. Barker (09:51):
Yes. He was in Toronto for about eight years running his own practice and doing his, uh, consulting surgery all over the, the province.

Harvey McEwen (10:00):
I see.

C. Barker (10:01):
But then he stayed at the college until he retired, oh, about 1955 or somewhere in there. You know?

Harvey McEwen (10:09):

C. Barker (10:10):
So he was, he was a chief surgeon when you and I were-

Jay Isa (10:12):
Oh yes.

C. Barker (10:12):
... going.

Harvey McEwen (10:13):
He was an awful good lecturer on anatomy.

C. Barker (10:16):
Oh, was he?

Harvey McEwen (10:16):

Jay Isa (10:17):
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

Harvey McEwen (10:18):
He never had a note in front of him.

Jay Isa (10:20):

Harvey McEwen (10:21):
Just stood up there with a bone in his hand and he'd just describe that bone just so. Oh gosh, he was good at anatomy, he and Dr. Amio-

Jay Isa (10:31):
Yeah. Not only that, but he could demonstrate, uh, the clinical symptoms of any deviation to the normal as far as bones and, uh, and muscles were concerned.

Harvey McEwen (10:39):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jay Isa (10:39):
And he put on the most terrific show in front of the class. Of course, that was his forte, being a showman.

C. Barker (10:42):
He was a bit of a showman.

Jay Isa (10:44):

C. Barker (10:46):
Yes. Yeah. And you mentioned Dr. Amio.

Harvey McEwen (10:49):

C. Barker (10:51):
Amio was a, uh, uh, was a... a microbi- a bacteriologist.

Harvey McEwen (10:55):

C. Barker (10:56):
Yes, with the provincial government wasn't he? For-

Harvey McEwen (10:58):
I couldn't tell you that.

C. Barker (10:59):
But then he went to Ottawa and became, uh, deputy minister of health-

Harvey McEwen (11:04):
Of health.

C. Barker (11:04):
... health.

Harvey McEwen (11:05):
Yes, I followed that in the papers.

C. Barker (11:07):
Oh, yes.

Harvey McEwen (11:07):
He was the m- most liked, uh, professor in our class. We-

C. Barker (11:12):
Is that so?

Harvey McEwen (11:13):
I can see him, yet, he's ... He never ... His pants was never properly dressed. He just stood at the end of the table there and he'd just talk to us like a father, you know? And he was so interesting. He knew everything.

C. Barker (11:23):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Harvey McEwen (11:24):
And we always had questions for him.

C. Barker (11:25):

Harvey McEwen (11:27):
And we talked about ... He'd never be able to answer ... It was just like pouring water on a duck's back. He had the answers-

C. Barker (11:32):
All there.

Harvey McEwen (11:32):
... all there.

C. Barker (11:32):

Harvey McEwen (11:33):
He was a wonderful bacteriologist. Yeah, Dr. Amio.

Jay Isa (11:37):
I think, uh, he became deputy minister and then I, I think he retired from that. And I don't know ... Some of his family, I think still live in Ottawa. I don't know them anyway, but I think there was a son that was a medical doctor in Ottawa.

Harvey McEwen (11:53):
Oh yeah, oh, oh, there's so many good professors there, you know?

C. Barker (11:57):
Yeah, there was another, uh ... I wanted to ask you about the old clinic buildings that used to be off, off Richmond Street. The, the anatomy buildings were behind 135 Richmond Street, I think it was, back in-

Harvey McEwen (12:17):

C. Barker (12:17):
... off the street. And you know, um, I- I've never found a photograph of them. There's some, some, uh, uh, etchings of them in some of the old calendars, but I've never found a photograph. And I've often wondered, uh, was the anatomy lab on the top floor, on, uh, of that building and, and how they got their horses up into there and so on?

Harvey McEwen (12:40):
It seems to me, you know ... It's quite a while ... it seems to me we did our anatomy upstairs-

C. Barker (12:48):

Harvey McEwen (12:48):
... 'cause I can see me looking down and the- the students would have to, uh, draw the blood. We roped down and then cut into the-

C. Barker (12:59):

Harvey McEwen (12:59):
... yeah, into the artery-

C. Barker (12:59):
Into the artery, yes.

Harvey McEwen (12:59):
... and let it bleed to death.

C. Barker (13:04):

Harvey McEwen (13:05):
And then after it bleed to death, then we pumped in the- in the solution, you see?

C. Barker (13:08):
Uh-huh (affirmative).

Harvey McEwen (13:09):
And that was downstairs, you see? And then the, he was hoisted up with a hoist and, and, uh, we had a whole string of them along there. You see, there was 80 of us in a class.

C. Barker (13:18):
Oh, there was 80 in your class?

Harvey McEwen (13:19):

C. Barker (13:19):
Thereabouts or something.

Harvey McEwen (13:21):
... well, around-

C. Barker (13:21):

Harvey McEwen (13:23):
70, I'd say somewhere around 70.

C. Barker (13:23):
Uh-huh (affirmative), uh-huh (affirmative).

C. Barker (13:25):

Harvey McEwen (13:25):
Yeah. But, uh, it was a pretty drab place. And I ... (laughs). Maybe I wrote in my letter, I had to be careful walking in there. If you stepped of the planks you'd go down to your knees in muck. (laughs).

C. Barker (13:41):
Well, there- there's some old photographs of the in- of the inside of that building and they, it looks as if there was never any heat in the building it ... There was ... It shows some old, an old stove pipe going up the end of the building upstairs.

Harvey McEwen (13:54):

C. Barker (13:54):
But, but it looks as if it was never heated. And it doesn't look as if there was any lights in the place.

Harvey McEwen (13:59):
No, uh, we had ... We ... I don't ... There was nothing wrong with the lights. We could see, I know that.

C. Barker (14:04):
Well, there was windows all along the side of it, I know, uh, from the old photographs I have but, um, it, it makes you wonder whether you had to be there in daylight to see what you could do, uh, that time.

Harvey McEwen (14:15):
I must tell you this story, though. We- we'd go to the dissecting room, you see? And then we'd get on a street car to go home. We wouldn't be on there very long, you'd hear someone, "Some of those darn vets are on this car." (laughs) They could smell us all over the car. (laughs) The odor of that, it wasn't a s- ... It was a sickening kind of a smell.

C. Barker (14:40):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Harvey McEwen (14:41):
And I, after that, I walked home, (laughs) [inaudible] so I wouldn't be in there.

C. Barker (14:44):
Yeah. Well, there was- there was an amphitheater in the bottom of that building where demonstrations were-

Harvey McEwen (14:52):

C. Barker (14:53):
... were put on.

Harvey McEwen (14:54):
Yes. Surgery through there too.

C. Barker (14:55):
Surgery was done there, wasn't it?

Harvey McEwen (14:57):
Yeah, Dr. Fowler would do the surgery.

C. Barker (14:58):
Uh-huh (affirmative).

Harvey McEwen (14:58):

C. Barker (15:01):
And I, I read somewhere where they used to do post-mortems in there at times, too.

Harvey McEwen (15:04):
I don't remember one. I remember had, we had a prize fight in there one day, a couple of boys, (laughs) that would use it for a fighting, a ring, you know?

C. Barker (15:13):

Jay Isa (15:14):
And you up a standard ring in there?

Harvey McEwen (15:14):
Oh yeah, a sta- standard ring, boxing ring.

C. Barker (15:18):

Harvey McEwen (15:18):
Didn't amount to much, but it was all right.

C. Barker (15:22):
Yeah. Well, I've got an interesting bit of material here, th- you may have difficulty in identifying some people. But, uh, I gotta- had a photograph given to me about two weeks ago by, uh, a Dr. McMaster in, uh, Port Perry and I've copied that photograph as best I could. Maybe you'll recognize some of the, some of the names on there. And I don't know whether that will-

C. Barker (15:55):
... help you. There it is, right there, behind me.

Harvey McEwen (15:58):
Yeah, that-

C. Barker (15:58):
That's a good one, too. The one I got-

Harvey McEwen (15:58):
It's a very good one.

C. Barker (15:59):
Oh, it's in good shape, and the one I've got, too.

Harvey McEwen (16:01):

C. Barker (16:04):

Harvey McEwen (16:05):
Oh, I knew all ... I know all these boys so well, you know?

C. Barker (16:07):

Harvey McEwen (16:08):
And the ... Now, uh, Dr. Craig sitting here-

C. Barker (16:11):

Harvey McEwen (16:12):
... he followed me as inspector in charge of Canada Packers, the inspection bench, you know?

C. Barker (16:16):
I- out here?

Harvey McEwen (16:17):
Yes, right in- in Saint-Boniface.

C. Barker (16:19):
In Saint-Boniface?

Harvey McEwen (16:20):
Yeah. And he was only there a short time. Craig was athlete, you know? He's a strong man. Great [inaudible], and wrestling and that sort of thing. But, you know, he only lasted a few months and he took a hammer to the, the [inaudible].

C. Barker (16:34):
Oh, wow.

Harvey McEwen (16:35):
And he just [inaudible].

Jay Isa (16:36):
Where had he been before that?

Harvey McEwen (16:38):
He'd been, he'd been in fetal practice with the-

Jay Isa (16:42):
Oh yes.

Harvey McEwen (16:42):
... [crosstalk] department.

Jay Isa (16:43):
He spent his career in [crosstalk]-

Harvey McEwen (16:45):
No, he practiced for a while in Southern Manitoba.

Jay Isa (16:47):
Oh yes.

Harvey McEwen (16:47):

Jay Isa (16:48):

C. Barker (16:49):

Harvey McEwen (16:49):
Well, by Joe. Oh, gosh. That's really good. Herd, yeah, he was the president (laughs).

C. Barker (16:58):
Well, ch- cha- that was Charlie Herd.

Harvey McEwen (17:01):

C. Barker (17:03):
Now he, uh, he was a registrar of the Ontario Association for a short period of time, if I remember rightly.

Harvey McEwen (17:09):
Maybe you're right.

C. Barker (17:10):
But he died about 1916 or '17, or something like that, I think.

Harvey McEwen (17:15):
Did he?

C. Barker (17:16):
I can't remember exactly.

Harvey McEwen (17:17):
Did he?

C. Barker (17:17):
You know, I never knew him, knew any of these people, of course, but I just read about them.

Harvey McEwen (17:21):
Well, well. Oh.

C. Barker (17:24):
And McMaster, you see the McMaster on there, this is his son who gave me this picture, the- this photograph. Y- down on your left hand side there's a McMaster-

Harvey McEwen (17:33):
Oh yeah, yes, I knew him quite well.

C. Barker (17:34):
Did you?

Harvey McEwen (17:34):
Oh yes.

C. Barker (17:35):
Well, his son lives in- in Port Perry in Ontario and he was a classmate of mine.

Harvey McEwen (17:40):
Well, well.

C. Barker (17:41):

Harvey McEwen (17:42):

C. Barker (17:42):
D.C. McMaster-

Harvey McEwen (17:43):
I guess McMaster's dead?

C. Barker (17:45):
Oh yes, he's dead. Yes.

Jay Isa (17:47):
Heavy set, blonde boy?

C. Barker (17:49):
No, ca- Cam McMaster was his name. He had to drop out for a year because of tuberculosis and he came and finished off with '42 I think, or was, or '43? But he was, uh ... We knew him ... I knew him pretty well. He calls up every now and then.

Harvey McEwen (18:02):
Uh, you're talking about this photo-

C. Barker (18:04):

Harvey McEwen (18:04):
When I get my friends in, uh, old time friends-

C. Barker (18:08):

Harvey McEwen (18:09):
... I says, "Can you pick me out in that picture?" One in 10, that can pick me out, just one in 10.

Jay Isa (18:16):
Now Harvey, I wanna ask you about [inaudible] McGilvray. Was he in the province in your time as a practitioner?

Harvey McEwen (18:21):
Oh yes. Oh yes.

Jay Isa (18:23):
Well, who was he with then, at that time?

Harvey McEwen (18:25):
He was with the pro- province of Manitoba.

C. Barker (18:28):
Well, wasn't- wasn't he ... wasn't [crosstalk] ... McGilvray was federal government.

Harvey McEwen (18:31):
Yeah, he was federal government.

C. Barker (18:32):

Harvey McEwen (18:33):
Yes, he was.

C. Barker (18:33):
He, uh, he came back to Manitoba, um ... See, it's the funny thing about this, and in a sense it isn't, but McGilvray was a- was ... His original address was Carmen, Manitoba. That's where he always shows up as being originated in the cal- in the calendars.

Jay Isa (18:52):
Oh yes, yes.

C. Barker (18:53):
He came to Toronto and took the two-year course that Smith was giving.

Jay Isa (18:58):

C. Barker (18:58):
And that got him his VS diploma. But he couldn't come back to Manitoba because you had to have 18 months before you could be registered. He had only 12 months' diploma. So, he went to McKillip in Chicago and took another year there. Then, he came back in 19, uh, 01 I think it was, or '02. I'm not clear on this, to Manitoba. But what he did when he first got back to Manitoba, I don't know. But it wasn't long after that, it was maybe 1903 or thereabouts, when he became a federal government, uh, employee.

Jay Isa (19:38):
And that's when he got the nickname of Shotgun McGilvray.

C. Barker (19:40):
That's right. That's right.

Jay Isa (19:41):
So, he was put in charge of, of, of tracing all cases of glanders-

C. Barker (19:47):
That's right.

Jay Isa (19:48):
... and contact.

C. Barker (19:49):
That's right. And the person who put him in charge of this had just been made, uh, or was shortly afterwords, became veterinary director general and that was ge- uh, J.G. Rutherford.

Jay Isa (20:01):

C. Barker (20:02):
In 1904, Rutherford became veterinary director general and glanders was everywhere, as you well know.

Jay Isa (20:09):

C. Barker (20:09):
And McGilvray was placed in charge or eradication and if it wasn't, uh ... I- I don't think it was in Saskatchewan. It was all of Manitoba anyway.

C. Barker (20:22):
And that's where he'd been.

Jay Isa (20:22):
Because he was [inaudible] veterinary.

C. Barker (20:22):
He was, he was right here in Winnipeg.

Jay Isa (20:24):

C. Barker (20:24):
He- he was- he was district man here.

Jay Isa (20:27):

C. Barker (20:28):
But I never knew whether he practiced for a short time after he came out of college. I must ask, uh, Roy, uh, McGilvray, sometime, whether he could tell me.

Harvey McEwen (20:39):
Is that his son?

C. Barker (20:39):

Harvey McEwen (20:40):

C. Barker (20:40):
He lives in Guelph now.

Harvey McEwen (20:41):
Does he?

C. Barker (20:42):
Yes, he's been retired for oh, I don't know, five or six years or more and, uh. Yes and he's living in an apartment, uh, in Guelph.

Jay Isa (20:49):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

C. Barker (20:51):
And I see him occasionally. I'll, I'll ask him sometime to tell me.

Jay Isa (21:00):
Well, you'll see it was back in those early days, that the local association got the legislature to pass a- an addition or something to their act to say that, "No veterinarian with three, less than three years of college could practice in Manitoba."

Speaker 4 (21:15):

Jay Isa (21:15):
Well, of course, all the veterinarians that were here didn't have three years.

Harvey McEwen (21:20):
Oh, that's right.

Jay Isa (21:21):
But they set up this criteria of three years and at that time, Guelph was only two ... or Toronto was only two years.

C. Barker (21:28):
Yeah. Yes.

Jay Isa (21:30):
So that's why a lot of the men he- headed down to McKillip.

Harvey McEwen (21:31):
Oh yes.

C. Barker (21:34):
And then, in 1896, the Manitoba Act was revised saying you have to go to a three years college-

Jay Isa (21:43):

C. Barker (21:44):
... before you can come back-

C. Barker (21:45):
... into this Province. But they didn't put this into effect until 1899.

Jay Isa (21:49):
Uh-huh (affirmative).

C. Barker (21:50):
And you see, it was, it was about that time when McGilvray was in college.

Jay Isa (21:55):

C. Barker (21:55):
So, he had to take three years if he was going to come back-

Jay Isa (21:58):
To Manitoba.

C. Barker (21:59):
... to Manitoba.

Jay Isa (21:59):

Harvey McEwen (22:00):

C. Barker (22:01):
And I think his, uh, I think his mother, uh, and the family were still living in Manitoba at this time, but I- I don't know the back history of it. I'm pretty sure that's what it was. And he wasn't the only one. Macintosh got caught in the same thing, R.A. Macintosh, who practiced out in Morton.

Harvey McEwen (22:18):
Yeah, he practiced in Morton.

C. Barker (22:19):
Yeah. Well, he graduated from McKillip about 1909. And that's why he went down to McKillip.

Jay Isa (22:24):

C. Barker (22:25):
And that's why, uh, the fellow who just died here this year, um-

Jay Isa (22:29):
Harry Ross?

C. Barker (22:30):

Jay Isa (22:30):
Didn't he take his entire course down at McKillip?

C. Barker (22:32):
That's right, so did Macintosh. Yeah.

Harvey McEwen (22:36):
What- what happened to Harry Ross, did you ever hear?

Jay Isa (22:39):
Well, Har- ... I don't know why he died, but he's gone.

Harvey McEwen (22:41):
I know he's gone. Nice writeup in some paper, I saw.

Jay Isa (22:44):
Well, I know he died in bed. I- I mean was it an accident?

Harvey McEwen (22:44):
No, no. No.

Jay Isa (22:48):
He was an old man.

Harvey McEwen (22:49):
Yes, Harry was getting along.

Jay Isa (22:52):
Yeah, he graduated about '12 or '13.

Harvey McEwen (22:54):
Somewhere along there.

Jay Isa (22:56):

C. Barker (22:56):
I- I didn't know him.

Harvey McEwen (22:57):
He was very-

Jay Isa (22:58):
Very smart boy.

C. Barker (23:00):
Yeah, I- I would gather that.

Harvey McEwen (23:01):
He be- but he became an alcoholic and lost his practice and lost everything he had. But he stayed with it and they had him in jail so often, you know? And, uh, he says, "Let me out of here." And the doctor says, "Nobody's letting you out, Harry. You're just gonna get drunk again." He says, "Let me out this time," he says, "I'll never be drunk again." They let him out and he never drank another drink.

Jay Isa (23:26):

Harvey McEwen (23:27):
And he came right back and got right on top of the ladder again. Yeah. Has a nice little farm just south of Brandon.

Jay Isa (23:33):
That's where he retired to as a matter of fact.

Harvey McEwen (23:37):

Jay Isa (23:39):
Although, he [inaudible] practice-

Harvey McEwen (23:40):
Oh, he practiced on the farm.

Jay Isa (23:40):
Yes, a bit. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah.

Harvey McEwen (23:40):
All right.

C. Barker (23:45):
Well, your practice was in Stonewall. Was that-

Harvey McEwen (23:48):
Yes, I practiced there for 25 years, exactly.

C. Barker (23:51):
Right after graduation-

Harvey McEwen (23:52):
Yeah, right after graduation, I went back there and I practiced for 25 years. And, uh, the old pump wasn't, wasn't working too good and a few other things and, uh, I was advised to take life a little easier. I worked hard.

Jay Isa (24:08):
And you remember Frank Bryant?

Harvey McEwen (24:12):
Oh [inaudible]?

Jay Isa (24:12):

Harvey McEwen (24:13):
Oh yeah, I knew Frank well.

Jay Isa (24:14):
Yeah. Well, when he passed, his wife couldn't collect any money either.

Harvey McEwen (24:18):
Is that right?

Jay Isa (24:20):
Oh yes, and he had... The country was just loaded with Frank Bryant's debts. You see, before, when I was a kid, this is where I got started, was running around with Frank Bryant. In the old days, when he had his, uh, office in the, uh, in the [inaudible] Liberty Barn.

Harvey McEwen (24:42):

Jay Isa (24:42):
And I spent a lot of time and I used to run around the country with Frank Bryant.

Harvey McEwen (24:43):
Did you?

Jay Isa (24:43):
Oh yes. And, um, uh, then when, uh, I was going to graduate out of grade 11, they started the grade 12 in [inaudible]. And because I was insistent that I was going to go down to the veterinary school, they made me take grade 12 and they split the year, so I spent two more years at home because Toronto or Guelph was away-.

Harvey McEwen (25:13):
Yeah, yeah. (laughs).

Jay Isa (25:17):
I thought, out of everybody's kin, you see.

Harvey McEwen (25:17):

Jay Isa (25:19):
Well, then, uh, when I got through that, well, times weren't so good, so the compromise was agricultural college in Winnipeg, here by that time, of course, Frank was gone.

Harvey McEwen (25:33):
Oh yeah. Yeah. I don't remember what happened to Frank. He died very sudden, didn't he?

Jay Isa (25:38):
Yeah, he died very suddenly.

C. Barker (25:40):
I suppose you would know, uh, Dr. W. Martin, who practiced in, one time in Manitoba?

Harvey McEwen (25:47):
Oh, Dr. Martin, here in Winnipeg?

C. Barker (25:50):
I think it must've been, yes.

Harvey McEwen (25:52):
Then there was a Dr. Martin who practiced in Brandon.

C. Barker (25:54):
I'm not certain which one.

Harvey McEwen (25:56):

C. Barker (25:56):
But were they always in practice, or were they ever with the federal government?

Harvey McEwen (25:59):
Oh, the older Dr. Martin who was here, he, he practiced here til he died.

C. Barker (26:04):
In Winnipeg?

Harvey McEwen (26:05):
In Winnipeg. But there's another Dr. Martin, he's w- he's working w- with the Depart- Health of Animals branch now.

C. Barker (26:11):
Oh, I ... Uh, the one I'm thinking of must be the one back about 1912 or '13, or, he was a practitioner here-

Harvey McEwen (26:19):
Oh, he was straight out and out practitioner.

C. Barker (26:21):
... in the city, all the time.

Harvey McEwen (26:22):
In the city of Winnipeg.

C. Barker (26:23):
Well, then there was a Dr. Stevenson, who, um, practiced here, a J- a J. Stevenson, I think it was.

Harvey McEwen (26:33):
I remember the name.

C. Barker (26:34):
And I wondered whether he was always a practitioner in- in, uh, Winnipeg or in- in Manitoba, or whether he was also a m- a Health of Animals, uh, employee for some period of time.

Harvey McEwen (26:54):
Well, now, you got me there, Doctor.

C. Barker (26:55):
I'll just ... I'm just looking through another, uh ... Yeah, it was W.E. Martin, was the one I was-

Harvey McEwen (26:58):
Th- that's the old doctor.

C. Barker (26:58):
That's the old doctor.

Harvey McEwen (26:59):
Yeah, that's him

C. Barker (27:00):
Well, then, there was another, a doctor S.A. Cox-

Harvey McEwen (27:03):
Sam Coxe.

C. Barker (27:04):
C-O ... Uh, C-O-X-E. Was he a practitioner here, or Health of Animals? Do you remember?

Harvey McEwen (27:13):
It seems to me he was Health of Animals, but I- you, uh, I wouldn't like to bet on that. I'm-

C. Barker (27:17):
I see.

Harvey McEwen (27:18):
... not to sure.

C. Barker (27:18):
Yeah. Well, you- do you know Fred Torrance when he was here?

Harvey McEwen (27:21):
Oh, I knew Fred Torrance. I've shaken hands with Fred a few times.

C. Barker (27:24):
I see. He practiced out in Brandon, wasn't it, for a while?

Harvey McEwen (27:27):
Well, he practiced right here in Winnipeg.

C. Barker (27:29):
And then in Winnipeg.

Harvey McEwen (27:29):
Dr. Hilton and Dr. Torrance were together.

C. Barker (27:32):
Yes. Well, now, there was two Hiltons. There was a George Hilton and a W. Hilton.

Harvey McEwen (27:36):
Yeah, well-

Jay Isa (27:36):
George Hilton was from here.

Harvey McEwen (27:38):
Yeah, W. Hilton was right in Manitoba.

C. Barker (27:39):
Right from Manitoba.

Jay Isa (27:40):

Harvey McEwen (27:41):
And he practiced with Dr. Torrance.

C. Barker (27:43):
I see, in Winnipeg.

Harvey McEwen (27:44):
Yes, in Winnipeg.

C. Barker (27:45):
But, when, when Torrance first came to Manitoba, he practiced in Brandon.

Harvey McEwen (27:49):
Did he?

C. Barker (27:50):
And then, he moved into Winnipeg.

Harvey McEwen (27:51):
I see.

C. Barker (27:52):
He was in Brandon for 10 or 12 years.

Harvey McEwen (27:53):

C. Barker (27:53):
And then, came into here. Then, he went from here to the- the Veterinary Director General's, uh-

Harvey McEwen (27:58):
That's right.

C. Barker (27:59):
... appointment.

Jay Isa (27:59):
Yes. Well, I-

C. Barker (28:00):
... in Ottawa.

Jay Isa (28:01):
... have a letter on my desk right now dated 1921, which obviously was, uh, a letter written, an answer to a question asked by Doc Savage when he was at McDonald College-

C. Barker (28:16):

Jay Isa (28:17):
... after the war.

C. Barker (28:18):

Jay Isa (28:19):
Uh, and the question that apparently was, "Was there any foot and mouth disease around Canada or had there ever been?" And this was a short little letter and reply and now, there is the original autograph of the doctor.

C. Barker (28:36):
Oh, that's good.

Jay Isa (28:37):
Who, in the federal government, or where, would have a- an archives, that that sort of thing could go in?

C. Barker (28:44):
I don't know whether there's anything, uh, in Ottawa. I doubt it very much, but I, I can't be certain of this. I've never tried to, uh, make inquiry.

Jay Isa (28:53):
I think I'll write to Julius Frank.

C. Barker (28:55):
Yes, you could do that, or write to the National Archives in Ottawa and they would tell you, 'cause they have a collection of all of the diplomas.

Jay Isa (29:02):
Have they?

C. Barker (29:02):
Uh, Charlie Mitchell collected a- a diploma, an example-

Jay Isa (29:06):

C. Barker (29:07):
... of a diploma from each of the colleges in Canada. Uh, there's a good collection of them, in, in Ottawa. You can get them out for an exhibit if you wanted to do it some time. And they might have other correspondence. Now, I know they have some because I've looked up Rutherford's correspondence. There's very little. And old Duncan McKcrene. Did you ever meet old Dr. McKcrene?

Harvey McEwen (29:29):
No, I never met him.

C. Barker (29:30):
You never met him.

Harvey McEwen (29:30):
Never met him.

C. Barker (29:31):
Well, there's very little in the- in the archives on him, so I would suspect there isn't much in the archives, but as I say, I've never searched.

Jay Isa (29:38):

C. Barker (29:39):
But, Torrance, you- you- you'd met out here.

Harvey McEwen (29:41):
I met him out here.

C. Barker (29:42):
Uh-huh (affirmative).

Harvey McEwen (29:42):
Yeah. And I met him when he was Veteran Director General. He came and visited our association once.

C. Barker (29:48):
Yes, he came to the meetings-

Harvey McEwen (29:49):

C. Barker (29:49):
... once in a while.

Harvey McEwen (29:50):
I never- I never n- never missed a meeting.

C. Barker (29:51):

Harvey McEwen (29:51):
I never missed a meeting-

C. Barker (29:52):

Harvey McEwen (29:54):
... except one year. The, the snow g- storm came up and we had the street in Winnipeg.

Jay Isa (30:01):

Harvey McEwen (30:02):
We were s- we're bound in a snowbank and we never got home til the next morning. I never got to Winnipeg.

Jay Isa (30:05):
Oh dear.

C. Barker (30:08):
(laughs). Would you know a ... This Stevenson that I'm thinking of is a Dr. J.A. Stevenson. And I don't know whether he practiced here or not. Um, this was about 1910, when I'm reading some of these names. I have a- a history I'm writing on the, uh, Canadian Veterinary Medical Association. And I've got a lot of names here from Manitoba that I would like to, uh, know a little bit about them. That's why I'm thinking-

Harvey McEwen (30:41):
Well, did you get-

C. Barker (30:41):
... for asking-

Harvey McEwen (30:42):
... the original ...

C. Barker (30:44):
I've copied all that you sent to me. I have it there in the office.

Harvey McEwen (30:46):
...the original re- uh, register?

C. Barker (30:50):
No, I don't have the original register. No. You never sent that down to me. You sent me the minutes of the meetings, of the original meetings, but not the register. I didn't need the register.

Harvey McEwen (31:00):
You didn't need it?

C. Barker (31:00):

Harvey McEwen (31:01):

C. Barker (31:01):

Harvey McEwen (31:01):
... maybe that's why I didn't send it.

C. Barker (31:03):
That's right. There's another name here, Charles Little, a Dr. Charles Little.

Harvey McEwen (31:08):
And I remember the name.

Jay Isa (31:08):
Yeah, I remember it too-

Harvey McEwen (31:10):
I remember the name.

Jay Isa (31:11):
From the register, I didn't know.

C. Barker (31:12):
He was one, I think, of almost one of the original, uh, members of the Manitoba Association.

Jay Isa (31:18):
Could be.

Harvey McEwen (31:18):
I- I think you're right.

C. Barker (31:19):
Yes. And then there was a Dr. W.R. Taylor. I don't know anything-

Harvey McEwen (31:24):
No, I don't know him at all.

C. Barker (31:25):
... about him.

Harvey McEwen (31:27):
He's ... No, I don't remember him at all.

C. Barker (31:29):
Would you remember a fella from Saskatchewan named Murison?

Harvey McEwen (31:33):
Yeah. He was secretary treasurer out there.

C. Barker (31:35):
That's right.

Harvey McEwen (31:36):

C. Barker (31:36):
Did you know the ... Was he always in practice, uh-

Harvey McEwen (31:39):
As far as I know, he, he was a good pra- ... From what I've read or heard of him-

C. Barker (31:44):

Harvey McEwen (31:45):
... he was very well thought of, as a practitioner.

C. Barker (31:48):
I see.

Harvey McEwen (31:49):
Yeah, Dr. Murison.

C. Barker (31:50):
That's right. Well, I'm- I'm, uh, I'm getting a lot of good information here. I don't- I don't know whether you'd know some of the fellows out in, in British Columbia. There was a Dr. Jagger, a Dr. Jagger, he was ... graduated before you, about 1908.

Harvey McEwen (32:08):

C. Barker (32:09):
And a Dr. Hogan.

Harvey McEwen (32:11):

C. Barker (32:13):
And would you remember S.F. Tolmie?

Harvey McEwen (32:17):
(laughs). Yes, he was Premiere of British Columbia.

C. Barker (32:19):
That's right.

Jay Isa (32:19):

Harvey McEwen (32:20):
That's, that's about all I'd remember.

C. Barker (32:21):
Well, he was minister.

Harvey McEwen (32:22):
There's a mountain called, uh, Mount Tolmie.

C. Barker (32:23):
Yes, it's named after him.

Harvey McEwen (32:24):
It's named after him.

C. Barker (32:25):
That's right.

Harvey McEwen (32:26):

C. Barker (32:26):
And he was also a- a Dominion minister of agriculture for two or three years-

Harvey McEwen (32:32):
Was he?

C. Barker (32:32):
... about 1921.

Harvey McEwen (32:34):
Yes. Yeah. Oh yeah. I've been on that mountain.

Jay Isa (32:38):
Harvey, do you remember Molloy?

C. Barker (32:40):
Yes, Senator Molloy.

Jay Isa (32:42):
Senator Molloy.

Harvey McEwen (32:43):
Yeah, he was a Frenchman.

Jay Isa (32:47):
Was he? That I didn't know about him, but he practiced somewhere in Manitoba.

Harvey McEwen (32:48):

C. Barker (32:49):
Yes, he did.

Jay Isa (32:49):
I have his old bit in the, uh, it's stuck right-

C. Barker (32:52):
Have you?

Jay Isa (32:52):
... in the old register.

C. Barker (32:53):
I'd like to see it. I'd like to get a copy of it because I think he played a- a part that isn't very well-known in the formation of the, uh, first Dominion Veterinary Association, that collapsed after two years. It was a-

Jay Isa (33:08):

C. Barker (33:09):
... one that had the, a short existence. And I often wonder whether he didn't have something to do with it, and also, with regard to, uh, to some veterinary organizational meetings that were held in Ottawa. Uh, I think he's sitting in the background somewhere an- and using his political-

Jay Isa (33:23):
Uh-huh (affirmative).

C. Barker (33:24):
... position, but I don't-

Jay Isa (33:24):
Is that so?

C. Barker (33:25):
... I don't know. I can't, uh, be certain of it.

Jay Isa (33:27):
Uh-huh (affirmative), uh-huh (affirmative).

C. Barker (33:29):
The other thing, Jay, that- that, uh, I think you mentioned to me, um, was the Western Canada Veterinary Association.

Jay Isa (33:43):
Well, yeah.

C. Barker (33:43):
Do you remember Al Savage had a lot to do with-

Jay Isa (33:45):

C. Barker (33:45):
... trying to-

Jay Isa (33:46):
He was caught

C. Barker (33:47):
... keep it together.

Jay Isa (33:48):
He- he and I think, uh-

C. Barker (33:51):
It was B.I. Love was the other one.

Jay Isa (33:53):
Love, of the park.

C. Barker (33:54):
And Hargraves at one time in Alberta.

Jay Isa (33:57):

C. Barker (33:57):
Quite a number, tried to hold a, a Western Canadian Association together.

Jay Isa (34:04):
They tried to organize it and tried to get it established so that the western provinces would be repaired-

C. Barker (34:12):

Jay Isa (34:12):
... when the national got going.

C. Barker (34:14):
That's right.

C. Barker (34:15):
They were- they were hoping that there would be an Eastern Canadian Association

Jay Isa (34:20):

C. Barker (34:20):
... and a Western Canadian.

Jay Isa (34:21):
And then, they amalgamated.

C. Barker (34:22):
And then they'd come together.

Jay Isa (34:24):

Harvey McEwen (34:24):

C. Barker (34:24):
But I can't, I can't ... I don't know who has any of the minutes of those early meetings, or-

Jay Isa (34:31):
I don't-

C. Barker (34:31):
... where the records might be at all.

Jay Isa (34:33):
I don't think they were, uh, specifically organized. I think it was a group of individuals that was doing a lot of talking and corresponding.

C. Barker (34:42):

Jay Isa (34:43):
I don't-

C. Barker (34:43):
But they never had a register of any-

Jay Isa (34:45):

C. Barker (34:45):
... kind, or a-

Jay Isa (34:45):

C. Barker (34:45):
... membership list.

Jay Isa (34:46):
No. Nothing. It was just a group of men. But that old correspondence, I think is gone, just gone. Uh, [inaudible] correspondence is just gone.

C. Barker (35:01):
There's another name here that you might remember is a Dr. Schultz.

Jay Isa (35:04):
Oh, yes.

Harvey McEwen (35:05):
Dr. Schultz very well.

C. Barker (35:07):
You knew him very well.

Harvey McEwen (35:07):
Oh, very well.

Jay Isa (35:07):
Oh, yes.

C. Barker (35:09):
Well, his name-

Jay Isa (35:10):
In fact-

C. Barker (35:10):
... his name comes up quite a lot in the minutes of the Manitoba Association.

Harvey McEwen (35:14):
Yes, he-

C. Barker (35:15):
And he practiced here, but then he was federal too, wasn't he?

Jay Isa (35:19):

C. Barker (35:19):

Jay Isa (35:21):
Schultz went provincial Department of Public Health.

C. Barker (35:24):

Jay Isa (35:26):
And, uh, this is where he spent several years. Now, in the, in the, in the, uh, in '26, when Savage went overseas to take his MRCES-

C. Barker (35:38):

Jay Isa (35:39):
... Schultz took over his teaching role at the Ag school.

C. Barker (35:42):
I see.

Jay Isa (35:43):
And that's why we, uh, our group of class '30-

C. Barker (35:47):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jay Isa (35:47):
... didn't get Savage at all.

C. Barker (35:49):
I see.

Jay Isa (35:49):
But it was Schultz, we got.

C. Barker (35:51):
I see. Yeah. Well, he, he did a lot of work for the Manitoba Association. He was-

Jay Isa (35:57):
He would be the kind, yes.

C. Barker (35:58):
He was a prominent, um, person, I would think in- in the, in the association.

Harvey McEwen (36:06):
He- he was very prominent in the association.

C. Barker (36:06):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Harvey McEwen (36:06):
Okay? Any subject came up, he generally had his say-so. Yeah.

C. Barker (36:08):
Yeah. All right. Well, would you know of a, of a Dr. McGlofrie in Moosomin, Saskatchewan? I don't suppose you would've heard of, maybe know him, Dr. McEwen?

Harvey McEwen (36:24):
No. No. I know Dr. Ha- Hannon out in Horn. (laughs).

C. Barker (36:29):

Jay Isa (36:32):

Harvey McEwen (36:32):
Yeah. [inaudible]. Good friend of mine.

C. Barker (36:34):

Jay Isa (36:34):
Saint [inaudible] he was an old timer.

Harvey McEwen (36:37):

Jay Isa (36:38):

Harvey McEwen (36:38):
Oh yeah, he's gone.

Jay Isa (36:39):

C. Barker (36:39):

Jay Isa (36:40):
... Saint. Sure.

C. Barker (36:40):

Harvey McEwen (36:40):
Oh yes.

C. Barker (36:42):
Now, there's another Saint then, who's living down in California.

Jay Isa (36:45):
Well, he was a federal man.

C. Barker (36:47):
That's right.

Jay Isa (36:47):

C. Barker (36:48):
Because I have a letter from him about the same time I got a letter from you, last year.

Harvey McEwen (36:53):
Oh yes.

C. Barker (36:54):
I had written, uh, put a little note in the, uh, alumni, uh, news bulletin, that I want information on- on this, uh, material that I'd picked up from Bucky Stubbs. Now, you'd remember, uh, Stubbs, wouldn't you?

Harvey McEwen (37:05):
One eye's a little crooked from the other.

C. Barker (37:07):

Harvey McEwen (37:08):
(laughs). I can see him.

C. Barker (37:09):
But I- I never knew him, personally. I never met him.

Harvey McEwen (37:12):

C. Barker (37:12):
But, I ... After he died, last March, I went to his home, and, uh, talked to Mrs. Stubbs. And she showed me a photograph of his that was taken when he was in the Army over in- in England. And it's- it's not a very large photograph, but with this magnifying glass, that I carry with me, you can see one eye is just-

Harvey McEwen (37:34):
Yeah, that's right.

C. Barker (37:34):
... ang- angled off a-

Harvey McEwen (37:34):
That's right.

C. Barker (37:35):
... little bit.

Harvey McEwen (37:36):
That's right.

C. Barker (37:37):
It- it's- it's pretty plain, you know? Yes.

Harvey McEwen (37:40):
He was a good student in anatomy.

C. Barker (37:42):
Oh, was he?

Harvey McEwen (37:42):
He was very good in anatomy.

C. Barker (37:44):
I see.

Harvey McEwen (37:44):
Yeah, oh, yeah. Oh, I know Stubbs so well

C. Barker (37:48):
Wow. Well, his wife is- is living, uh, North of Toronto in- in, uh, a little village there.

Harvey McEwen (37:56):

C. Barker (37:56):

Harvey McEwen (37:58):
By the way, Dr., did you- did you get the snapshot that I sent you?

C. Barker (38:00):
Oh yeah, sure.

Harvey McEwen (38:01):
Oh, (laughs) yeah?

C. Barker (38:02):
Oh yeah, I got it with me.

Harvey McEwen (38:03):
Oh, that's ...

C. Barker (38:04):
You know those fellas (laughs).

Harvey McEwen (38:05):
Oh yeah. Oh, that's the one I sent you-

C. Barker (38:05):
That's right.

Harvey McEwen (38:07):
Well, that's nice.

C. Barker (38:08):
That's right. Yes.

Harvey McEwen (38:10):
Yeah, those are all-

C. Barker (38:11):
Well, I knew this fellow on the end, here. That- that's

Harvey McEwen (38:14):

C. Barker (38:14):
Yeah. I knew Younghusband, all right, but the others, I- I can't, uh ... I- I couldn't say I- I knew them.

Harvey McEwen (38:20):
Well, Dr. Younghusband is- is dead, of course.

C. Barker (38:23):

Harvey McEwen (38:24):
And Dr. Taylor, there-

C. Barker (38:25):

Harvey McEwen (38:25):
... he just came to see me about a month ago, today.

C. Barker (38:28):

Harvey McEwen (38:29):
And he was on his way ... His wife was very, very poorly.

Jay Isa (38:32):

Harvey McEwen (38:33):
She didn't know. And I wrote him since, but I haven't heard whether she's still alive or not. And then there's Dr. Hissa.

C. Barker (38:40):

Harvey McEwen (38:40):
He was- he was a great friend of mine. I followed him. He was in charge of Canada Packers Health of Animals. And I followed Dr. Hissa.

C. Barker (38:48):

Harvey McEwen (38:49):
And he's gone.

C. Barker (38:50):
Oh, I see.

Harvey McEwen (38:50):
His wife lives in, on Oak Street in Van- Vancouver.

C. Barker (38:54):

Harvey McEwen (38:55):
Yeah. Yeah.

C. Barker (38:56):

Harvey McEwen (38:58):
Well, I ... It's funny, we're all graduates of 1913.

C. Barker (39:01):
Yes. (laughs) Yes. There was another person you might remember ... I think he was a year before you ... was Sam Stirk. Can you remember S.D. Stirk? He still practices a bit in Brampton. Do you know a Gerry, Gerry Stirk-

Jay Isa (39:13):
Oh yeah.

C. Barker (39:13):
... his son.

Jay Isa (39:14):
Yes, yes, yes yeah, sure.

C. Barker (39:15):
Gerry was a year, or two years after me.

Jay Isa (39:17):
Uh, Jack C.-

C. Barker (39:18):
That's right.

Jay Isa (39:18):
... used to work with-

C. Barker (39:19):
That's right.

Jay Isa (39:19):
... Stirk.

C. Barker (39:20):
That's right.

Jay Isa (39:21):
Yes. And I visited there with Jack C.

C. Barker (39:23):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jay Isa (39:24):
And the old gentleman had a drugstore there-

C. Barker (39:26):
Yeah, that's right.

Jay Isa (39:28):
... practice.

C. Barker (39:28):
That's right. Yeah.

Jay Isa (39:29):
And then sort of a treatment barn out behind-

C. Barker (39:31):
That's right.

Jay Isa (39:31):
... at the time.

C. Barker (39:31):

C. Barker (39:32):
Yes, well, he's still there.

Jay Isa (39:33):
Is he?

C. Barker (39:33):
And he's taking phone calls and, uh, advising people by telephone.

Jay Isa (39:39):
How nice.

C. Barker (39:39):
Yeah. He's 80- 86 or 7.

Jay Isa (39:42):

C. Barker (39:42):
Yeah. Oh sure, I drop in and see him.

Harvey McEwen (39:45):
What year would he have graduated in?

C. Barker (39:47):
He graduated the year before you did, I think.

Harvey McEwen (39:49):
Oh, that's how I missed him then.

C. Barker (39:50):

Harvey McEwen (39:51):

C. Barker (39:53):
I ... [inaudible] there it is, S.D. Stirk, Brampton, 1912-

Harvey McEwen (39:56):

C. Barker (39:57):
... the year before you.

Harvey McEwen (39:58):
Uh-huh (affirmative).

C. Barker (39:59):
And that was the year Sparrow, Mike Sparrow graduated, um, and who went ... he went to, to Vancouver after graduation and lived there, practiced there.

Harvey McEwen (40:10):
Mike practiced at, as a student, in those days, you had to, to get your certificate, you had to give a- a letter from a practitioner that you had practiced with them.

C. Barker (40:23):
One summer, you had to practice.

Harvey McEwen (40:23):
One summer, I had to.

C. Barker (40:24):
That's right.

Harvey McEwen (40:25):
And I- I practiced in a little town by the name of Granton.

C. Barker (40:28):
In Ontario.

Harvey McEwen (40:29):

C. Barker (40:29):

Harvey McEwen (40:30):
That's ... It saved me 20- $30 because I'd have to pay that to get home.

C. Barker (40:34):
That's over near ... Yes, that's over near Goderich, Kincardine-way

Harvey McEwen (40:39):

C. Barker (40:39):
... way.

Harvey McEwen (40:39):
St. Mary's.

C. Barker (40:39):
St. Mary's. Yes.

Harvey McEwen (40:40):
About 20 miles North of London.

C. Barker (40:42):

Harvey McEwen (40:43):
I went and visited there in 1950.

C. Barker (40:45):
Did you?

Harvey McEwen (40:46):
Yes, but the old doctor was gone.

C. Barker (40:47):
Who were you with there?

Harvey McEwen (40:49):
Dr. Damm.

C. Barker (40:50):
Oh, Damm.

Harvey McEwen (40:51):
Yeah, you know Damm?

C. Barker (40:52):

Harvey McEwen (40:52):
Dr. Billy Damm.

C. Barker (40:53):

Harvey McEwen (40:54):
And, uh-

C. Barker (40:55):

Harvey McEwen (40:58):
... uh, I got [inaudible] I practiced just in that, uh, area.

C. Barker (41:00):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Harvey McEwen (41:00):
And Dr. Damm told me, "Don't ..." He said, "Don't go out past a certain line, uh, uh, on a certain day," he said, "to do any surgery." He says, "They're all Roman Catholics there, and they won't let you do any surgery." (laughs).

C. Barker (41:22):
Is that right? Is that right? Oh boy.

Harvey McEwen (41:22):
Like an old Irish uncle. He said, "Don't castrate unless the moon is a certain way," he says, "they'll swell up." (laughs) I thought, "Well, there'll be a lot of swelling up, every day was the same with me."

C. Barker (41:36):
You know, uh, I preceptored with Rolly Top. He was before '35, '36 time. But, I went to a place with him one day and the people said, "There's no point in coming to castrate today because the signs are in the heart." And they said, "If you do them today, they'll bleed to death." So, we said, "All right, we won't do them today, whatever you want. We'll come back-"

Harvey McEwen (41:55):

C. Barker (41:55):
... "another day."

Harvey McEwen (41:55):
Yeah, (laughs) yeah.

C. Barker (41:58):
And, you know, uh, you tell this to- to, uh, students at the present time and they think it's a big joke, anyone saying things-

Harvey McEwen (42:05):
Yes, yeah.

C. Barker (42:06):
... like this, but- but it was so, that people had these beliefs and- and-

Harvey McEwen (42:10):
You couldn't change it.

C. Barker (42:11):

Harvey McEwen (42:12):
And you did the right thing by saying, "Well, that's all right, we'll come back another day."

C. Barker (42:14):
Come back another day.

Jay Isa (42:15):
We'll be there.

Harvey McEwen (42:16):
We'll be there, that's right.

C. Barker (42:17):

Harvey McEwen (42:18):
Oh, gracious my-

C. Barker (42:20):

Harvey McEwen (42:20):
... in all of the castration I did, I never bothered about the moon at all. (laughs). Well, that wasn't where you were looking (laughing).

C. Barker (42:25):

Harvey McEwen (42:25):
I- I must've done 3000 of them, at least-

C. Barker (42:25):

Harvey McEwen (42:25):
... in 25 years.

C. Barker (42:25):

Harvey McEwen (42:25):
I'm sure I did that many.

C. Barker (42:25):

Harvey McEwen (42:25):
And, uh-

C. Barker (42:25):

Harvey McEwen (42:25):
An- an-

C. Barker (42:35):
Well, when you came to practice here, the Ford car would be just about coming into vogue at that time.

Harvey McEwen (42:43):
The car I got, I got it from Dr. Erwin. He graduated a couple of years before me.

C. Barker (42:47):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Harvey McEwen (42:48):
And I go over, took his practice over and I bought his car with it.

C. Barker (42:51):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Harvey McEwen (42:52):
It was a 1911 Model.

C. Barker (42:52):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Harvey McEwen (42:54):
And, of course, he got drunk one night and took it down to the racetrack to see how fast it would travel. Turned her over two or three times and it was pretty badly bashed up. But, you know, that's the car I used for five years. (laughs) And as long as I had a- as long as I had a pair of s- uh-

C. Barker (43:09):
Spare tires with you.

Harvey McEwen (43:10):
... pair, a pair of pliers-

C. Barker (43:11):
Oh, pliers.

Harvey McEwen (43:12):
... and some wire, I always got, able to get home. (laughs). And, you know, the next car I bought was only about $500 for a new one.

C. Barker (43:21):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Harvey McEwen (43:21):
And that was about what it was worth, I guess, at that time. But, uh, oh, I had a great time. I learned more about automobiles from that old car, that first car. And, you know, it wouldn't start in the morning. And I didn't know how to start it. I didn't know how to go down. I had to go down to get, uh, g- get the, uh, garage man out of bed. It'd be early in the morning, and, uh, he'd come up and, and, uh, he said, "Ta- uh, got a hold of the handle there," and I'd put it up. And, "All right, hold it there now." And then, he'd work out these batteries-

C. Barker (43:54):

Harvey McEwen (43:54):
... you see? All right, try the next one. And then, I could hear them z- z- you know? And then, you have to roll it forward, fixed up, away she goes. And I had to do this two or three times. He just charged me 50 cents for coming down there and fixing it. I thought, "Well, my golly, that's ... I'm going to get a pair of s- a rig for going in there and sharpening, taking those sharp points off," and I did it myself. (laughs).

Jay Isa (44:19):
This was on the magneto.

Harvey McEwen (44:20):
On the magneto.

Jay Isa (44:21):
Yeah, the buzzers.

Harvey McEwen (44:22):
Little, the little coils, coils, that's the word.

C. Barker (44:25):

Jay Isa (44:25):

Harvey McEwen (44:25):
There was four coils.

Jay Isa (44:27):
Yeah, in a wooden, each in a wooden box.

Harvey McEwen (44:28):
Yeah, in a wooden box. That's right.

Jay Isa (44:30):

Harvey McEwen (44:30):

Jay Isa (44:30):
Oh dear.

Harvey McEwen (44:31):
Oh, gosh. Oh gosh, what times we had with those old cars. Yeah.

Jay Isa (44:35):

Harvey McEwen (44:35):
And, uh, to get gasoline in, you had to lift, take the cushion out.

C. Barker (44:39):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jay Isa (44:40):

C. Barker (44:40):
That's right.

Jay Isa (44:40):
It's under the front seat.

Harvey McEwen (44:42):
Under- under your front seat, and of course, it only had one seat. And then at- at each end, there was a space there. And I used to carry a gallon of gasoline in one end and a gallon of oil in the other, because there's- there's no stations in those days.

C. Barker (44:53):
That's right.

Harvey McEwen (44:53):
And you're way up 20 miles, well, you're- you're just stuck, that's all. That's all. You learned a lot about automobiles.

C. Barker (45:01):
Did you, uh, (laughs), did you keep a horse and cutter in the wintertime?

Harvey McEwen (45:05):
I kept a horse and buggy the year round.

C. Barker (45:07):

Harvey McEwen (45:09):
And if the cloud ... if there was a cloud in the sky, and I went out and had a call, I'd take a look at the cloud, is it gonna rain? If it's gonna rain, I'll take the horse, because if I took the car I'd get stuck in the mud.

C. Barker (45:19):

Harvey McEwen (45:20):
That's all di- disappeared now.

C. Barker (45:22):

Harvey McEwen (45:22):
And I had a horse and a cart, and buggy, uh, a cart and horse back. That's how I ... I got on a horseback-

C. Barker (45:31):

Harvey McEwen (45:31):
... in the spring of the year, to get around. But, I remember and my horseback ride didn't- didn't work out very good. I came home standing in the stirrups. (laughs). Oh, was I sore. (laughing). I didn't make many trips on horseback I'll tell you after that... Oh, it was a great life. It's a great life-

Speaker 4 (45:54):

Harvey McEwen (45:54):
... great life. And you make so many friends. You do make so many 'cause you can't help that.

Speaker 4 (45:58):
Oh yeah.

Harvey McEwen (45:58):
Yeah, you can't help that.

C. Barker (45:59):
That's fine.

Harvey McEwen (46:01):
It's, uh ... The sad part of it is that 99% of the old timers, that I doctored horse and cattle for, they're all gone.

C. Barker (46:08):

Harvey McEwen (46:09):
Yeah, they're all gone. And- and their- their children's children are there now, and that's about all I can say for them.

C. Barker (46:16):
It was a- it was a part Ukrainian community then, that you were around Stonewall, for a long time.

Harvey McEwen (46:22):
Ukrainian, you say?

C. Barker (46:23):

Harvey McEwen (46:23):
Well, th- no, the town was ... You see, we had quarries. The, the, the town was built on a quarries, stone of quarries, just, just-

C. Barker (46:31):
Stonewall- Stonewall, I guess, maybe that's-

Harvey McEwen (46:33):
That's where it gets its name.

Jay Isa (46:33):
Limestone. There was a big outcropping that went across from Ontario, uh, straight up into the Northwest.

C. Barker (46:41):
I see.

Harvey McEwen (46:41):
And- and it went for 40 or 50 years. It's finished out now.

C. Barker (46:45):

Harvey McEwen (46:46):
At the, uh, and the Ukrainians all worked in the quarry, uh, pounding rocks, you know? It was a hard life.

C. Barker (46:54):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Harvey McEwen (46:54):
But, but out in the country, there wasn't ... But, now, there's quite a few u- Ukrainian farmers as well. But, those ... When I got north of Teulon and those countries, it was solid Ukrainian-

Jay Isa (47:03):

Harvey McEwen (47:04):
... all Ukrainian. Yeah.

Jay Isa (47:05):
'Cause that was the, uh, homestead country.

Harvey McEwen (47:05):
Homestead country, yeah.

Jay Isa (47:07):

Harvey McEwen (47:12):
Oh, I had, I had some, uh, great, great visits to those northern countries, you know?

C. Barker (47:15):
Of course, it was also the-

Jay Isa (47:17):
Icelandic country too.

Harvey McEwen (47:18):
Yes, it was some Icelanders, uh, yes, north of Teulon, I get run into Icelanders. But, uh, the longest trip I ever had, I guess, was to, uh, Churchill. (laughs).

C. Barker (47:28):
Oh, you went over to Churchill.

Harvey McEwen (47:30):
I was ... That's when I was working for the federal department of agriculture.

Harvey McEwen (47:34):
I went to Churchill to inspect a carload of meat. And the other longest trip was to Pine Falls. I was in practice then, you see?

C. Barker (47:44):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jay Isa (47:44):
Yeah, well, that'd be a long trip.

Harvey McEwen (47:47):
A long trip. I had to take the car from Stonewell, Winnipeg. I put it in [inaudible] garage, took the train up to Pine Falls and then hired a- an Indian with a pair of shaganappis. And this, I must tell you this. They said there was an outbreak of, um, glanders. I had no business at all being there. That was a federal job. I was a practitioner.

Jay Isa (48:11):

Harvey McEwen (48:13):
Well, I said to the old Indian who was driving me, "When are we going to get to this place?" I had to call at every Indian and check along the road and look at something.

C. Barker (48:19):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Harvey McEwen (48:20):
And finally, he said, "We get there tomorrow." I said, "All right."

C. Barker (48:22):

Harvey McEwen (48:23):
And when we got there, do you know what we got? I says, "Where's the dead animal, 'cause I wanna see them?" Well, when we kicked the snow around, we found some bones. That's all. They'd been dead for six months.

C. Barker (48:34):
No. Six months?

Harvey McEwen (48:35):
Six months, easily, because there's just the bones left.

C. Barker (48:39):
Oh yeah.

Harvey McEwen (48:39):
You know, the Indians are not so [inaudible]. They wanted to get a lot of veterin- cheap, veterinary work done for nothing, (laughs) which they did. I might as well tell you the rest of the story. It was quite a bill. My fee was $10 a day.

C. Barker (48:53):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Harvey McEwen (48:55):
Well, a trip from Stonewall to Winnipeg and hotel and Pine Falls and the Indian charged $7 a day, and so on. And I sent the, I sent the bill to Ottawa-

C. Barker (49:03):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Harvey McEwen (49:04):
... and didn't- and didn't get any answer. And so, I just, m- a month came around, I sent them another bill. And I got my check. And the ... I was at a picnic in Teulon the next summer. And I can't think of the chap's name. He was with the, uh, he was with the- the department.

C. Barker (49:20):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Harvey McEwen (49:24):
He said, "Dr. McEwen," he says, "that name sounds familiar to me." He said, "Did you ever do any work for the government?" I said, "I did a little." He said, "Do you know that your- y- your bill came up, came up on the floor of the House of Commons?"

C. Barker (49:37):

Harvey McEwen (49:42):
I know all right to click that man, the man on the moon.

C. Barker (49:44):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Harvey McEwen (49:45):
Oh, he said. They, they turned to me and said, "What about this bill that Mr. Sherette or whatever his name was.

C. Barker (49:50):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Harvey McEwen (49:51):
He says, "If he did the work, you better pay him." (laughs). And I got my check. (laughs). And, and, you know, I never found out who got me the job, 'cause a man phoned me. He said, "This is so and so, president of the Conservative Association, can you go to Pine Falls?" I says, "I don't take much interest in politics." An- an- an- and, I say- he says, It isn't politics."

Harvey McEwen (50:16):
I says, "Is it a veterinarian surgeon you want?" He said, "Yes." Well, I said, "I'm your man." I go there, I wanted to see the place, I had never seen it. And le- I was telling this to a chap I got acquainted with at Canada Packers. I said, "I never found out who that guy was that phoned me." And I says, "The darn fool," I said, "He pretty near got me into a lot of trouble." And I told him. He says, "I'm the man that called you." (laughs) Oh, it was doing great. Great life, great life.

C. Barker (50:50):
Well, we've been having pretty interesting afternoon. I don't wanna keep you-

Harvey McEwen (50:55):
[inaudible] just, I mean-

Harvey McEwen (50:56):
... I, I enjoy talking to the old veterinaries, you know? And talking to veterinaries, it's wonderful. And it's funny, when I dream ... I had an awful dream last night, I was doing post-mortem work.

C. Barker (51:08):
You were back at the job.

Harvey McEwen (51:09):
Back at the job again, doing post-mortem work. Yeah. Very often, it's, I'm out in the country doing some operation. Yeah. But, uh-

C. Barker (51:20):
Well, I think your memory's very good.

Harvey McEwen (51:22):
Well, it's not too bad, when I got fellas like you fellas, you can kind of talk back to me. (laughing). But the-

C. Barker (51:29):

Harvey McEwen (51:31):
... it- it- course, now, the- the practice changed a lot since I was-

Jay Isa (51:37):
Oh dear.

C. Barker (51:37):
Oh yeah?

Harvey McEwen (51:38):
Oh yes. Doctor ... I forget the doctor's name in Stonewall now.

C. Barker (51:42):
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mal- Kjernisted's out.

Harvey McEwen (51:42):
Kjernisted, one of them's Kjernisted.

C. Barker (51:45):
Kjernisted's out there.

Harvey McEwen (51:45):
Yes, I know Kjernisted.

C. Barker (51:47):
A very nice chap.

Harvey McEwen (51:48):
And another little chap, he has a- a home three miles East there.

Jay Isa (51:52):

Harvey McEwen (51:52):

Jay Isa (51:52):

Harvey McEwen (51:55):
He ... I think he's very good veterinarian too. Yeah.

Jay Isa (51:58):
He was a Yugoslav.

C. Barker (51:59):
That's right.

Jay Isa (51:59):
He's a graduate of wherever.

C. Barker (52:01):

Harvey McEwen (52:01):

C. Barker (52:02):

Jay Isa (52:03):
Zag- uh-

C. Barker (52:04):
Zagreb, is it?

Jay Isa (52:05):
Zagreb, yes.

C. Barker (52:06):

Jay Isa (52:06):
He's a graduate of Zagreb.

Harvey McEwen (52:08):
Yeah, Yugoslavia.

Jay Isa (52:09):

C. Barker (52:10):
You know, in this, uh ... going back to this football team, again, there's a picture, on the corner here is C.W. MacIntosh.

Harvey McEwen (52:17):
Know him very well.

C. Barker (52:18):
I knew him very well.

Harvey McEwen (52:19):
He was blacksmith as a wee, as a boy.

C. Barker (52:21):
Yeah, he came, originally, from, uh, Prince Edward Island, I think it was.

Harvey McEwen (52:25):
Maybe it was.

C. Barker (52:26):
And then to Saskatchewan. And then, from there, to- to the college in Toronto. And I- I knew him fairly well.

Harvey McEwen (52:34):
Oh, nice little Mac.

C. Barker (52:34):
He was a very nice fella.

Harvey McEwen (52:37):
A very nice chap.

C. Barker (52:38):
Oh yes. Oh yes.

Harvey McEwen (52:39):
He, he played football with us there he is in that picture.

C. Barker (52:41):
He, he was a short.

Harvey McEwen (52:42):
Yes, a short man.

C. Barker (52:43):
That's right.

Harvey McEwen (52:43):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

C. Barker (52:44):
That's right.

Harvey McEwen (52:45):
You see, in that Toronto [inaudible], there's a little write up about each one.

C. Barker (52:49):
Yes, there is.

Harvey McEwen (52:49):

C. Barker (52:49):
That's true. That's true.

Harvey McEwen (52:52):
Oh yes.

C. Barker (52:52):
Yeah. Very interesting.

Harvey McEwen (52:54):
I wouldn't take anything from that old book, you know? And then, sometimes, I see so and so died.

C. Barker (53:00):

Harvey McEwen (53:01):
And the name would come to me. I'd rush, I'd hung up my old Toronto [inaudible] and by golly the man I was thinking about would be a son of a-

C. Barker (53:07):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Harvey McEwen (53:07):
... old vet.

C. Barker (53:07):
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jay Isa (53:10):
Yeah. Yeah.

Harvey McEwen (53:10):
Yeah. Yeah.